After he came home from Vietnam he claimed it an unjust war and a mistake and has done so ever since. So how can he now claim he defended this country in a mistake and shot a kid in the back as honorable?

There's more to leadership than waving the flag TK. He had the courage to tell it like it was. Even Nixon called him articulate!

I suppose there is some grace in flip flopping if you say it the right way. :p

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Were you there ( Vietnam-during the conflict) jeff'e'd?

If you weren't, then what are you basing your statement that, "He had the courage to tell it like it was" on?

I have two close relatives that I admire greatly who were there and who take great offense at John "Pierre" Kerry saying that they, like most of his 'brothers in arms' were a bunch of "RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS."

Oddly enough, when Kerry brought his color 8mm camera with him to Vietnam to re-enact scenes to make himself appear to be a war hero----He forgot to capture any footage of all those RAPES and CHILD MURDERS that all those troops were so busy committing.

After all, that's the way it really was...right?

When you wear two left shoes it's hard to make sense of anything :p

Well, you're right in that I wasn't there and I can't authenticate every word he used.

I do know that Kerry has said on many occasions that he wishes that he had used different words than he did 30 years ago.

I guess I don't have a problem with him having the courage to speak his mind based on his volunteer service to his country.

What I see today from those who "served" with him is a partisan view of what Kerry was like as a commander.

We'll see what McCain has to say in more detail shortly.

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John McCain was doing an extended stay in the Hanoi Hilton when Kerry was in Vietnam.

His say, and or view of Kerry's actual service in Vietnam would be as speculative as yours or mine.

Who cares what MCCain has to say on the matter. There are several present and past congressmen that served in Vietnam that support the Swiftboat vets and GW. Mccain is just one. Kerry made it a point to completely ignore is 20 year Senate record because it is the most liberal based on his voting record. That record will not sell in Iowa. So he decided in a time of war to sell his record in Vietnam and it is the hill he will die on as a presidential candidate. Either Vietnam was a travesty and a mistake as Kerry has maintained for 30 years or it was the right thing to do. Since he now firmly sits on both sides of the fence we need some serious answers. Which one was it John? This is a major major character issue that you cannot sluff off with a counter like well what did GW do? Did you serve in the militray liberal dodge.

How can he not?

Would he be more credible if he'd claimed it an unjust war if he hadn't experienced it first hand?

Oh that's right, Bouches don't need actual facts to form opinions.

And they are ...?

Elvis....the colonel is calling....its time for your medication!

SWIFT OFFICERS AND VETS: KERRY LIED ABOUT SPENDING CHRISTMAS IN CAMBODIA

**Exclusive**

Since the early 1970s, Kerry has spoken and written of how he was illegally ordered to enter Cambodia. Kerry mentioned it in the floor of the Senate in 1986 when he charged that President Reagan’s actions in Central America were leading the U.S. in another Vietnam. Here’s what he said as excerpted from the new book, UNFIT FOR COMMAND:

I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared--seared--in me.

DRUDGE has learned from the accounts of Swift Boat officers and Kerry’s crewmembers that Kerry was never in Cambodia. UNFIT FOR COMMAND authors charge that Kerry made it all up.

“Despite the dramatic memories of his Christmas in Cambodia, Kerry’s statements are complete lies,” according to John O’Neil, co-author and the Swift Boat commander who took over Kerry’s boat. “Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. . . . he was more than fifty miles away from Cambodia.”

Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13’s patrol areas extended to Sa Dec, about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. . . . Tom Anderson, Commander of River Division 531, who was in charge of PBRs (small river patrol crafts] confirmed that there were no Swifts anywhere in the area and they would have been stopped had they appeared.

All the living commanders in Kerry’s chain of command . . . deny that Kerry was ever ordered to Cambodia. They indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialed had he gone there. At least three of the five crewmen on Kerry’s boat, Bill Zaldonis, Steven Hatch, and Steve Gardner, deny that they or their boat were ever in Cambodia.

O’Neill observed that the Cambodia incursion story is not included in Tour of Duty (Kerry’s recent biography). Instead, Kerry replaced the story with a report about a mortar attack that occurred on Christmas Eve 1968 “near the Cambodian border” in a town called Sa Dec and Christmas day was spent at the base writing entries in his journal.

After conducting interviews and research, authors of Unfit for Command conclude, “The truth is that Kerry made up his secret mission into Cambodia.... the lie about the illegal Cambodian incursion painted his superiors up the chain of command. . . . as villains faced down by John Kerry, a solitary hero in grave and exotic danger and forced illegally against his will into harm’s way.”

Statement from Col George E. "Bud" Day, USAF, Ret., Medal of Honor Recipient, Former POW in Hanoi, North Vietnam, regarding Presidential election support:

"I am solidly in the camp for the reelection of President George W. Bush.

While opposition to my legal efforts to restore WWII/Korea era earned medical care by the Bush Administration was discouraging, the Kerry Vietnam anti-war movement directly encouraged the vicious torture I received as a POW in the Hanoi Hilton, was demoralizing for other POW's and their families, and provided aid and comfort for North Vietnam to continue the war.

I can think of no action more despicable than false public condemnation of warriors on the field of battle, as John Kerry made under oath.

Senator Kerry is unfit to become President and our Commander-in-Chief."

Col, George "Bud" Day, USAF, Ret., Medal of Honor recipient, Former POW in Hanoi, North Vietnam.

Here\'s the credibility of the Swifties Against Kerry.

I hear a certain Billy Squire song on the radio in the back ground whenever you post GH. Something about "stroke me,stroke me"

Funny thing is that Kerry's biggest Swfitboat supporters have been Hired by Kerry or his friends.

Another interesting viewpoint .

Kerry's war record
Robert Novak (archive)


August 9, 2004 | Print | Send


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The television ad that aroused the wrath of John McCain and journalist supporters of John Kerry just begins deconstruction of the Democratic presidential candidate's war record. "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," a 214-page critique of his performance in Vietnam and the antiwar movement, is off the presses ahead of schedule.

I have read the book and found it is neither the political propaganda nor the urban legend that its detractors claim. It is a passionate but meticulously researched account of how Kerry went to war, what he did in the war and how he conducted himself after the war. The very serious charges by former comrades deserve answers but so far have produced only ad hominem counterattacks.

Why should details of what Kerry did more than 30 years ago be part of this election campaign? Only because the senator has made them integral to his strategy. Kerry as war hero received more attention at the Democratic National Convention than plans for the future. Thus, what he did in his shortened four months of combat becomes a valid campaign issue.

John E. O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit for Command," replaced Kerry as commander of Swift Boat PCF 94 in 1969 and has been confronting him since 1971. O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political.

O'Neill told me neither he nor his co-author (Jerome R. Corsi, a writer and expert on the Vietnam antiwar movement) has had contact with the Bush White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign. He said he and Corsi, on their own initiative, went to conservative Regnery Publishing to offer the book.

The co-authors paint Kerry as a reluctant warrior. Contrary to claims by Kerry's supporters that he served two combat hitches in Vietnam, his one-year term aboard a guided missile frigate was far from action. His four months in the brown water navy were terminated eight months early by a third Purple Heart wound, none of which required hospitalization.

The book's strength is the vehemence of testimony by swift boat veterans, alleging that Kerry "gamed" the system to win decorations and later betrayed comrades by charging war crimes. Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan." Some 200 "Swiftees" on May 4 signed a letter to Kerry demanding full release of his service records.

The book's weakness is support for Kerry's presidential campaign by his swift boat crewmates, presumably people who knew him best. O'Neill told me that these former sailors served with Kerry no more than five weeks. Jim Rassmann, now part of the Kerry presidential campaign, was a Special Forces lieutenant spending a few days with Kerry when he fell or was knocked off the swift boat while under fire and was fished out of the Mekong River by the future candidate.

The "band of brothers" was organized by Kerry, according to this book. It tells of a 2003 telephone call to Adm. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded swift boats in Vietnam, telling him he was running for president. Hoffmann, mistakenly thinking it was former Sen. Bob Kerrey, "responded enthusiastically." Once the admiral realized it was John Kerry, "he declined to give Kerry his support." Hoffmann is quoted as saying, "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States."

"Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted.

Nice book review by a political pundit. A book which is merely the opinion of the author on events that happened over 35 years ago.

What's the point?

quote:
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O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political.
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Bull. Check this out.
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=John_E._O\'Neill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Theking:

Funny thing is that Kerry's biggest Swfitboat supporters have been Hired by Kerry or his friends.--TK
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That's true. The Kerry supporters have been compensated for their vocal support. I haven't seen any proof that the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are motivated by anything other than having the truth about what they wittnessed
made public.

BTW--The money that the Texas citizen donated to Sb V for T organization helped to produce and air the groups add--not pay the people who spoke in it.

George Soros gives money to the Kerry '04 and other democratic candidates election fund-- raisers. He also has given large sums of money to Moveon.org and 527's--does that automatically link Kerry and other democrats to Moveon.org and everything produced and claimed by the 527's?

George Soros and others are just working within the guidelines of the McCain/Finegold campaign finance reform bill--If someone doesn't like that, they should attack the legislation---not the people who find ways to work around it.

Suggesting that John O'neill is a political hack doesn't hold up if you ask yourself what his motivations were when he publically challenged Kerry and his claims about his own and others Vietnam service BEFORE he ever met Nixon, or Kerry ever announced that he was seeking a political office.

It seems to me that O'neill has been CONSISTANT about his opposition to Kerry and the accusations he made about the men who served in Vietnam (before and after Kerry ever asked for a single vote). Kerry would be well served if his own views on anything were consistant from month to month--much less over 30 years like O'neill's.

It has nothing to do with Bush and continuing down that path is ignorant. It's about Kerry and only Kerry.

Is that right?

So if you wind up thinking this important enough to not vote for Kerry.............who do you vote for then? Hmmm? The draft dodger?

So I guess if you don't vote for the war protester, you could vote for the draft dodger......or Ralph Nader.